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Managing the projects

After Camp Smalltalk ends, there is issue of managing the projects. This involves the physical storing and retreiving of different versions of the project for multiple Smalltalk systems. That is the easy part. A bit harder is insuring that the project continues (if needed), dealing with bug reports, keeping the code current in multiple Smalltalk systems, and producing new versions. --Roger Whitney
Seems to me that SIF would be the format to go with. It's standard and powerful (I think). Also, it sounds like there is a money issue into the future. I would propose a non-profit org that could be an industry group. Also, I hope that the vendors take it as a badge of pride to maintain their various impl of these standards. That would make this much easier to manage, IMHO. -Rob Withers

We need a standard format. I predict it will be XML, and not SIF. But as Roger said, that is the easy part. The harder part is insuring that the project continues. It will all boil down to people taking charge. For each system that we want to keep going, someone will have to step forward and be responsible for it. We can set up some computer infrastructure, such as mailing lists, wikis, and archives. But without people who are determined to make it happen, it will go nowhere. Ralph Johnson

I agree that XML is a better approach for a standard format. The semantics should preserve the good points of SIF, but in today's world I can't see a reason not to use XML. And it's definitely the easy part. We need people to do work and maintain the community around each project. We also need facilities and standard places for them. There are starting to be things that provide these facilities, like SourceForge. They provide things like mailing lists, bug tracking systems and version control (but using CVS). I know there are people looking at how easy it would be to use CVS to hold file-ins. Smalltalk projects could also be lost in there. Just before getting the Camp announcement I was involved in trying to set up a web site that could act as some sort of focus point for ST open source efforts, providing some facilities and links to other systems. Not operating yet, since we get distracted by the camp, but soon... More info under my bio. -- Alan Knight

Just wanted to throw in a small "plug" for the project CVSTProject. We are working towards "marrying CVS with Smalltalk". Currently we are aiming at VW and Squeak (but we aim for good portability) and we have actually a healthy chunk of code already. I think we will aim to have some sort of demo ready for Camp Smalltalk - I will not attend though. As for the question of different choices for storing code - we will probably use "pluggable renderers" so that the choice of format is open. -- G�ran Hultgren

SIF or XML doesn't really matter, 'tis true. I think there must be 4 or 5 efforts at creating code repository web sites. We must be concerned about an responsible organization or group who makes the determination when something can go alpha->beta->release, and have one site which baselines the open frameworks. I view this as an active content issue as all the sites should mirror each other. On the issue of keeping it going - we have a very active communitee so perhaps, folks will step up and take responsibility for pieces. I'll do my bit. This is why I brought up the idea of a non-profit org. In today's world we must have active open source. A healthy community could perhaps be assisted by a heathy (read funded) Smalltalk Research Intitute. Perhaps that is the STIC. Who runs it? Regardless, strategies for making money in this area may be a useful conversation topic. I know I could benefit from such candid discussion. -Rob Withers

Sounds like an excellent discussion topic for the camp. I don't think it's necessary that everything funnel through a central point for all projects. Clearly, any individual project needs some coordination, but I suspect that inevitably they'll be run differently, and there just needs to be clear links where to find things. Can we start a list of such sites so that we all know about them? -- Alan Knight

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